Nicely argued David, but I remain unconvinced. I foresee a future in which dead "souls" will crowd out living ones.... The Christian Heaven may have infinite room (some used to say only 144,000 souls, mostly now its said to accommodate potentially everyone), but IRL we have finite time, and all the time we'd spend communing with dead people is time not spent, as it were, here on earth. But you are no doubt right, its happening whether I like it or not.
I get that worry, Margaret. But I think we often imagine a 1-for-1 substitution that doesn't exist. That is, I don't think people who create an AI ghost and spend 2 hours with it would have spent 2 hours in warm human company. Just as likely they'd have watched TV or scrolled social media. We should not imagine that people would have or choose the best conceivable alternative to AI that we can dream up.
But how much time does it take to Create the AI ghost?? Thats the bit I don't get. How can you create any complex persona without devoting a vast amount of time? I know someone who did this for a poet he admired, and it was a huge project. Now he has an AI that produces ever more poems "by" his dead friend... but how many hours/weeks were spent making that AI, and for what real purpose?? I believe in complex relationships Big Time – I'm an identical twin, and there is NO more complex relationship than that! I don't believe real complex relationship can be achieved off the cuff as it were... If you can make an AI ghost in a few hours (can you??) then is it any "better" than time spent with a great TV series??? Genuinely like to hear what you think....
"For what purpose?" is the crux of the issue. If you believe that the purpose must be to reproduce what you have with a human being, then I think you've set yourself up for failure.
But if your purpose is to create something in this weird new medium, than you can do that and not screw up your connections to real people, because the difference between your "ghost" and a real person is clear. (Though of course all creators in all media get accused of neglecting people for their Art, but that's another issue.)
I think there is plenty of potential for trouble here, but I our fears should not cause anyone to lose track of what these things are. They are not duplicates of real people. They're imaginary beings, and engaging with them is a form of pretend play. Like having a conversation with a child's toy, or your cat, or your late grandmother that takes place in your head. You play along, but you know the cat isn't thinking over what you just said.
People who have trouble with the boundary between pretend and real life need to be protected (the alcohol analogy might apply). But most people over 18 or so do not have such trouble (alcohol analogy may, again, apply).
FWIW, I encountered this sentiment a lot: "I *know* it wasn't really him/her. But it was still helpful to me." As Laurie Anderson has said about her AI version of Lou Reed.
As for time, these things take surprisingly little time to set up. Though, interestingly, they can't be created with raw data. You have to provide a description in order for it to seem at all humanlike. IOW, you have to participate, because the AI isn't some objective account of grandpa. It's a creation based on your perceptions of grandpa. Ultimately, it's not about him; it's about you, the person who made him.
That's how I understand it at the moment, anyway. Would love to keep this discussion going!
Nicely argued David, but I remain unconvinced. I foresee a future in which dead "souls" will crowd out living ones.... The Christian Heaven may have infinite room (some used to say only 144,000 souls, mostly now its said to accommodate potentially everyone), but IRL we have finite time, and all the time we'd spend communing with dead people is time not spent, as it were, here on earth. But you are no doubt right, its happening whether I like it or not.
I get that worry, Margaret. But I think we often imagine a 1-for-1 substitution that doesn't exist. That is, I don't think people who create an AI ghost and spend 2 hours with it would have spent 2 hours in warm human company. Just as likely they'd have watched TV or scrolled social media. We should not imagine that people would have or choose the best conceivable alternative to AI that we can dream up.
But how much time does it take to Create the AI ghost?? Thats the bit I don't get. How can you create any complex persona without devoting a vast amount of time? I know someone who did this for a poet he admired, and it was a huge project. Now he has an AI that produces ever more poems "by" his dead friend... but how many hours/weeks were spent making that AI, and for what real purpose?? I believe in complex relationships Big Time – I'm an identical twin, and there is NO more complex relationship than that! I don't believe real complex relationship can be achieved off the cuff as it were... If you can make an AI ghost in a few hours (can you??) then is it any "better" than time spent with a great TV series??? Genuinely like to hear what you think....
"For what purpose?" is the crux of the issue. If you believe that the purpose must be to reproduce what you have with a human being, then I think you've set yourself up for failure.
But if your purpose is to create something in this weird new medium, than you can do that and not screw up your connections to real people, because the difference between your "ghost" and a real person is clear. (Though of course all creators in all media get accused of neglecting people for their Art, but that's another issue.)
I think there is plenty of potential for trouble here, but I our fears should not cause anyone to lose track of what these things are. They are not duplicates of real people. They're imaginary beings, and engaging with them is a form of pretend play. Like having a conversation with a child's toy, or your cat, or your late grandmother that takes place in your head. You play along, but you know the cat isn't thinking over what you just said.
People who have trouble with the boundary between pretend and real life need to be protected (the alcohol analogy might apply). But most people over 18 or so do not have such trouble (alcohol analogy may, again, apply).
FWIW, I encountered this sentiment a lot: "I *know* it wasn't really him/her. But it was still helpful to me." As Laurie Anderson has said about her AI version of Lou Reed.
As for time, these things take surprisingly little time to set up. Though, interestingly, they can't be created with raw data. You have to provide a description in order for it to seem at all humanlike. IOW, you have to participate, because the AI isn't some objective account of grandpa. It's a creation based on your perceptions of grandpa. Ultimately, it's not about him; it's about you, the person who made him.
That's how I understand it at the moment, anyway. Would love to keep this discussion going!